Lao's Quest

[JRLS]

are you using the latest version with the timestones/checkpoints in them?
might be easier

[Pater Alf]

Same here. I was stuck somewhere in temple four and after a while I gave up (don't want to use the code as it feels like cheating). I will probably return to the game some day, but for the moment I'm done.

[Zyx]

I think this is an interesting problem with puzzle games. One one hand, Jonathan Blow (Braid) and on the other hand, Gabe Newell (Portal) and Tim Schafer & Ron Gilbert (Double Fine) have pretty different views on it from what I've listened to their public appearances. The latter group's view is that puzzle games are difficult to design because there are so many games these days that if you get stuck in one game, it's very likely that you just drop it and never return. That's why, fe. in Psychonauts there are so much other things to do (like collecting fragments etc) (this was copied from Zelda) and why there are many different things going on in most adventure games, if you get stuck, you don't drop the controller but do something else until you figure stuff out. Similarly in Portal 2 it's pretty difficult to get stuck, the hints are not that subtle - but there's not that much hand-holding.

Blow on the other hand thinks that current games hold player's hand way too much and not let the player to figure things out for themselves. Braid quite famously is not that much fun of a game ("I did not design the game to be fun") and you need to have inhuman level of skill to "fully" complete the game which is the only way to really get what the game really is about (or so I have been told, I've been stuck since World 3).

[eMTe]

might be easier

The problem is I dont want the game to be easier, I like it being hard!

As for puzzle/adventure games in general, I think the problem lies elsewhere - in the very nature of "puzzles" incorporated into computer games. While pure puzzlers of various kinds require player to actually think out the solution, adventure games for most part force players rather to guess than to think and this is where you get stuck and lose interest in a game. Puzzles in adventure games are often deprived of the most basic sense of realism, for example protagonists usually dont possess money or keys and must discover weird ways of obtaining cash and getting into building. So when I get stuck in puzzle game, like Lao's Quest I dont get irritated, because I know that there's something wrong with me, not with the game, while in adventure games problem usually lies on game's side.

[JRLS]

well, there's two kinds of easy in the game:

1) set level on EASY: This way you will get more hints during the game, making it easier to solve the levels
2) set lives on infinity: Not only you have infinite lives, but more importantly, you have the opportunity to save checkpoints in a room, so it wont be frustrating when you make a mistake and having to start over the room.

maybe, you like option (2) more...

[eMTe]

Lao's Quest is not "frustrating". It's a hell of the puzzler. Like Chip's Challenge. Be patient and your game will get a cult status.

[JRLS]

haha, thanks, i hope so
it's in the spotlight list on sandbox.yoyogames.com (nr 10), so at least, that's a start

btw, if you put on infinity lives AND you set level on EASY, you get MORE timestones/checkpoints in a level than on NORMAL.

I got an email from a guy called frank, he completed the game!!!
without cheating!!
unbelievable!

[eMTe]

without cheating!!
unbelievable!

Why? I still didnt finish many of my favourite games (mostly point'n'click adventures), because I don't "cheat". Of course there's a twist - sometimes it happens that game is buggy, unknowingly to the player, and he replays it round and around and cannot pass certain level or screen, simply because it cant be passed. But of course discovering the possible bug is also fun (I did it so for Lao's Quest, fortunately the bug wasnt critical and it is perfectly possible to advance further without returning via this infamous hole ). On the other hand if you use walkthrough always comes the "oh, it was THAT easy!" reaction, whole fun is spoiled and you blame yourself to the very end of your earthly existence.

I had clever way of avoiding such situations. I gathered informations about games (trying to not find solutions to puzzles) - possible bugs, dead ends etc. and when I was sure that game (or versions of the game circulating around web) can be finished and doesnt contain "surprises" I was happy to play it. I use past tense in referrence to these actions, because Im not such purist anymore and I dont play that often like in the past, in my abandonware times. For example, some day, I learned about Ween: The Prophecy which I was trying to beat for many months that certain locations require the player to find pixel-sized hotspots, rather than using proper inventory object in proper place. I immediately tagged the game as "unforgiving" and played it further with walkthrough (discovering in the process that it is next to impossible to beat it even with walkthrough).

[JRLS]

hopefully, there are no bugs

btw, how do you like the duo play with rick dangerous in temple 6 ?
("lost vikings" style)

[eMTe]

Do you really believe that some of us reached the Temple no. 6?

[JRLS]

well,
you could use a password for room 601

at least one person finished temple 6 that i know of...

[eMTe]

The mysterious "guy called frank" I suppose.

[JRLS]

how do you know him?

[eMTe]

I got an email from a guy called frank, he completed the game!!!

Well...

[JRLS]

haha, he's not mysterious,
he does seem to exist
he told me what the enddemo looks like, so i know for sure he did it

[eMTe]

he told me what the enddemo looks like, so i know for sure he did it

I hope he didnt read how the ending looks, somewhere in web...

[JRLS]

?
where ?

[eMTe]

This I dont know. It's just the wild assumption. Nowadays, you can just turn around and a while after you find 76 longplay videos and 63 speedrun videos of your game on Youtube.

[JRLS]

omg, i found youtube video walkthrough of someone who solved temple 4 and 5 (but 1 level),
http://www.youtube.com/user/fulthrotle1966

awesome

[eMTe]

I must return to this damned level where I got stuck.