Jesus' Secret

Chillum · Post by **Chillum** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 20:21

I have read the famous book "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown... If you havent read it, but wants to, please dont read the following

That says that Jesus had a wife (In danish: Maria Magdalene), and a daughter named Sarah... And the legendary Holy Grail should be Maria Magdalene's corpse..

The pope ect. denies it, but what do you think? Do you belive it?

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 23:31

I haven't read the book.

What would the evidence for this claim that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were married and had children be?

The problem with these question is the scarcity of reliable information. - The way I see it, the Gospels aren't particularly credible as historical documents. What are they? 2nd or 3rd hand? Written long after Jesus died and with overt partiality...

If people believe what's in the Gospels as the truth, then I can see why they'd easily be swayed by a popular novel. And with so little appreciation for the validity of supposed facts I see no solution to this dispute of baseless postulates.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 16:39

I haven't read the book but I understand it to be a work of fiction. That the author claims it to be based on facts is sensational. Historians have little archaelogical evidence and only second-hand accounts of the events. Even if there are texts that support the postulates, that is just one more contradictory account of events for them to contend with. These claims are about selling the book.

Chillum · Post by **Chillum** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 17:48

Try to look at Leonardi Da Vincis painting The Last Supper... Look closely at the person left to Jesus - This is not a man... She is claimed to be Mary Magdalene.. And it looks like someone is "cutting" her throat with a hand, because they are afraid that Jesus loves HER more than THEM...

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 0:29

Why would da Vinci know any better than Dan Brown what happened back then?

The thing about the threatening hand on the painting - that's a wild interpretation; I'd think the mental age of the disciples to be above such "oedipal" behavior.

Chillum · Post by **Chillum** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:05

yes, but it's just to illustrate it..

I don't know if this is true, but it just sounds very interresting to me..

About Da Vinci, he should have been a member of a group called Priority of Scion, which was a group who protected the holy grail, and knew many secrets..

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:50

Chillum wrote:yes, but it's just to illustrate it..

Like circumstantial evidence; hardly convincing, no matter how much of it you gather driven by some wishful thinking.

Chillum wrote:About Da Vinci, he should have been a member of a group called Priority of Scion, which was a group who protected the holy grail, and knew many secrets..

Da Vinci a member of the Priory of Sion? That's preposterous!

Secrets societies are a peculiar phenomen. Incredibly exciting to outsiders, but boring to its members. Because of their secrecy, they gather interest from outsiders seeking to unravel their mysteries; primarily enticed by the aura of secrecy (they do this because secrecy is potentially dangerous to the uninitiated). Understandably, the non-members make up myths and exaggerated beliefs concerning the secret societies, such as the duty to guard ancient forbidden knowledge and treasures. (This is because good stories live and true stories die).

However, no such treasures are ever found and the supposed secrets can never be substantiated, which is why secrets societies are a good for popular fiction, not as a vault for historical research.

Prideth · Post by **Prideth** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:57

I've read both the Da Vinci code, which was a good read, and the bible, which was boring in the extreme mostly. I consider them both to be fiction (the bible may have some historical facts, but overall) and neither should be taken with any seriousness.

I looked up some of the bits and pieces I read in the Da Vinci codes, and the person sitting to the right of Jesus is supposed to be one of the apostles, John I think it was. Apparently he looked feminine and never grew a beard. Like the bible itself, I tend to take that explaination with a grain of salt.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 15:21

What is really interesting to me is why this is so interesting to everyone? I haven't read the book because the subject is of no interest to me. What difference does it make if Jesus had a wife whose body is the holy grail? What significance could it have for our modern world?

Prideth · Post by **Prideth** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 15:37

I read it because I had heard it was a good book, and thought I'd enjoy the story, which I did.

The dragonsriders of Pern books I love don't have any significance for the modern world either, neither do JR Tolkiens books, VC Andrews books, Stephen Kings books, need I go on?

Most people read fiction for a bit of escapism and enjoyment of a well told and written story. Not everything in life needs to be significant and have a purpose. Sometimes it is good to just lose yourself in an imaginary world of fiction for an hour or two and forget the bloody stresses and irritations of the modern world.

The Da Vinci code was just that for me. A fiction story I enjoyed and decided to check out a bit after I'd finished reading it. Not the first book or movie I've done that with either.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 15:46

I think that would be the right spirit in which to read the book, but I think that many people by the book because they sense some sort of scandal in the claims it is based on fact. I think if it wasn't for this then it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is.

Chillum · Post by **Chillum** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 22:53

Mistergreen, if Jesus should have had a wife AND a child, it would change all the christians ect.'s religion completely, because it's completely different from what they live after allready..

And about the Da Vinci Code, Dan Brown starts the book by saying, that all facts in the book is real facts.. Then we can start to argue if this is true or not.. But the fact is: That's what he says...

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 22:59

So do you think it is an attack on Christianity?

I think I will obtain this book and read it. It may not be the facts that are in dispute but their interpretation.

Prideth · Post by **Prideth** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 23:45

I think what hooked people into reading it because they thought it may be true came from the Catholic church putting out an announcement urging their followeres not to read it. They did that because the book is full of lies that could confuse Catholics and make them question their faith, and it IS only fiction. There is no evidence to back up any part of the story in it.

Some people saw the announcement and decided the church was trying to protect itself from its followers finding out the truth instead. In a way they put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5. That contraversy did give the book a lot of free advertising and would have caught the interest of people who otherwise wouldn't have known or cared about it. That old saying "where there's smoke, there's fire" comes to mind and I think some people thought just that.

I don't see this as an attack on anyone because it is fiction. If the book was trying to present this story as fact, then I think it would be an attack and the church would have a right to sqawk about it.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 16:44

Mistergreen, if Jesus should have had a wife AND a child, it would change all the christians ect.'s religion completely, because it's completely different from what they live after allready..

Even if Dan Browns history is more accurate than what is widely accepted - I fail to see how this would change christian religion. The thing about religious people is that facts will always be of secondary importance to their faith.

Funny that the church should warn folowers against a book, I would have thought they would have learnt by now - it is a bit like god telling man not to eat from the tree of knowledge. The prohibition excites desire.

Prideth · Post by **Prideth** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 0:45

Actually the warning not to read the book is pretty mild. For a centuries Catholics had an official list of books that their church totally banned them from reading called The Index of Forbidden Books. There were thousands of titles on it.

Article on the List

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 20:00

Ah yes - in times of inquisition you could be burnt at the stake for writing or even just owning such a book. Dan Brown most certainly would have been burnt along with his book. I think they still would if they still had the power and that if their current theology does not allow for it that is an expedient of the fact that they are no longer strong enough for it. Rationalism has triumphed through its tolerance of religion - we are wiser in that we understand persecuting a cause only serves to strengthen it. Take for example this book. Everywhere the book is criticised Dan Brown doesn't even need to defend his point of view. His ideas gain ground silently not in spite of all criticism but because of it. Perhaps the church did more for the enlightenment than anyone could have hoped for by their relentless persecution of free thinkers and inventing such indexes of forbidden books.