Feedback on the Frontpage

[Scythe]

Ok, this is going to be scythe's rant against the frontpage (the index page). The front page has been one of the most evolving places on site, sometimes for the better, but recently going in what scythe sees as a downward spiral of DOOM. I'm not even talking about the headers any longer.

Kudos to anybody who has worked on it, and I do not mean to make light of your work, all this is obviously my opinion. You can take that opinion as you like, but I call for changes, because I don't think we can be happy with the front page we have right now.

I'm not putting this in the bug tracker, because these are not bugs, my word is not final, and discussion is welcome.

Without further ado...

The main thing about the front page is that it's overcrowded, busy and ugly as sin. Not one of the good sins either. Ugly as sloth. It's a mismatch of info and features that do not go together and may not exactly warrant a place at the entrance to the site. Therefore, I will give my recommendations on what to keep, what to lose, and what to change. These are recommendations, my suggestions. Use them? I'd be happy. Lose them? I'll bring it up again later. Discuss them? Gladly.

1) Too wide? Well, yes it is. The front page doesn't fit in my 1152x864 resolution, and that's a pretty generous resolution as it is, if you ask me. It simply can't be right that I need to scroll a bar to see that a banner says "Download", not "Downlc". Needs some kind of auto-fit screen.

2) Header links. "Discussion" is fine. "CWF-FREEWARE" should lead to the index page (not currently a link). "Download" should lead to an actual download page, not the index.

3) Game Spotlight. The Spotlight is good, though I question the quick rating button's usefulness.

4) GameVsGame. This is a great feature. I think it could be safely reduced in width though. I imagine "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" is to blame. I'll bet something can be done to solve that.

5) Quick Search. Good.

6) Latest active topics. Useless waste of space. Use New Posts from the menu instead. Admittedly, sometimes I get logged off when I try to access, and New Posts make like I did get access and is reset. That's when this is useful. Is it possible to expand the search function to search for posts made in a certain time frame? That would be so much easier.

7) Pages visited. Useless info for a front page. Put in some kind of stat page.

8 ) World News. What I see as the greatest current sinner. This section manages to both be cramped and take up way too much space. The presentation, with its embedded movies, is dreadful to look at, and with its size and position seems to be the main focus of the site. Give this its own dedicated page and cut the previews down to 1-3, if there should even be previews at the index.

9) Latest Games. Useful, but could certainly be cut down to three.

10) Site News. Important section that has now been lost two scrolls of a page down away. Regardless, 1-2 news items at a time is enough, the rest can safely be archived. Either that, or make more site news, but keep them brief (except when they have to be long).

11) Interviews. Put on its own dedicated page and make mention of new interviews in Site News, then close this section from the front page.

12) Most popular downloads. Move to download page, free more space.

13) Latest Reviews. Not worth having for the few reviews we get done. Plenty with a review link in the menu.

14) Users with most posts. Utterly useless (and pretty static) piece of statistic. Put on statistics page.

15) Navigate on CWF. Put all items in the menu bar and release this space.

16) Banner exchange. Currently, to see a banner, I need to scroll down three times and right one time. Luckily, I haven't exchanged banners with CWF, or I'd be feeling slightly ripped off. And what is up with the "Other stuff" banners? Are these random sites that we exchange banners with?! If so, I think we should contact Burger King, Lufthansa and Keith Mweru, Nigerian Attorney at Law to see if they want to exchange banners and member emails with us...

There we are, just sixteen items I wanted to bring up. I hope to see this lead to changes made to what is currently, from where I'm sitting, a terrible mess of a frontpage. I have to tried to be constructive, but if my comments are seen as vicious and bitchy, please take a step back and count to ten... thousand. I want to improve the site, and I'm not very happy with the entrance as it is.

[Maz]

Ok, this is going to be scythe's rant against the frontpage (the index page). The front page has been one of the most evolving places on site, sometimes for the better, but recently going in what scythe sees as a downward spiral of DOOM. I'm not even talking about the headers any longer.

Kudos to anybody who has worked on it, and I do not mean to make light of your work, all this is obviously my opinion. You can take that opinion as you like, but I call for changes, because I don't think we can be happy with the front page we have right now.

I'm not putting this in the bug tracker, because these are not bugs, my word is not final, and discussion is welcome.

Without further ado...

The main thing about the front page is that it's overcrowded, busy and ugly as sin. Not one of the good sins either. Ugly as sloth. It's a mismatch of info and features that do not go together and may not exactly warrant a place at the entrance to the site. Therefore, I will give my recommendations on what to keep, what to lose, and what to change. These are recommendations, my suggestions. Use them? I'd be happy. Lose them? I'll bring it up again later. Discuss them? Gladly.

1) Too wide? Well, yes it is. The front page doesn't fit in my 1152x864 resolution, and that's a pretty generous resolution as it is, if you ask me. It simply can't be right that I need to scroll a bar to see that a banner says "Download", not "Downlc". Needs some kind of auto-fit screen.

2) Header links. "Discussion" is fine. "CWF-FREEWARE" should lead to the index page (not currently a link). "Download" should lead to an actual download page, not the index.

3) Game Spotlight. The Spotlight is good, though I question the quick rating button's usefulness.

4) GameVsGame. This is a great feature. I think it could be safely reduced in width though. I imagine "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" is to blame. I'll bet something can be done to solve that.

5) Quick Search. Good.

6) Latest active topics. Useless waste of space. Use New Posts from the menu instead. Admittedly, sometimes I get logged off when I try to access, and New Posts make like I did get access and is reset. That's when this is useful. Is it possible to expand the search function to search for posts made in a certain time frame? That would be so much easier.

7) Pages visited. Useless info for a front page. Put in some kind of stat page.

8 ) World News. What I see as the greatest current sinner. This section manages to both be cramped and take up way too much space. The presentation, with its embedded movies, is dreadful to look at, and with its size and position seems to be the main focus of the site. Give this its own dedicated page and cut the previews down to 1-3, if there should even be previews at the index.

9) Latest Games. Useful, but could certainly be cut down to three.

10) Site News. Important section that has now been lost two scrolls of a page down away. Regardless, 1-2 news items at a time is enough, the rest can safely be archived. Either that, or make more site news, but keep them brief (except when they have to be long).

11) Interviews. Put on its own dedicated page and make mention of new interviews in Site News, then close this section from the front page.

12) Most popular downloads. Move to download page, free more space.

13) Latest Reviews. Not worth having for the few reviews we get done. Plenty with a review link in the menu.

14) Users with most posts. Utterly useless (and pretty static) piece of statistic. Put on statistics page.

15) Navigate on CWF. Put all items in the menu bar and release this space.

16) Banner exchange. Currently, to see a banner, I need to scroll down three times and right one time. Luckily, I haven't exchanged banners with CWF, or I'd be feeling slightly ripped off. And what is up with the "Other stuff" banners? Are these random sites that we exchange banners with?! If so, I think we should contact Burger King, Lufthansa and Keith Mweru, Nigerian Attorney at Law to see if they want to exchange banners and member emails with us...

There we are, just sixteen items I wanted to bring up. I hope to see this lead to changes made to what is currently, from where I'm sitting, a terrible mess of a frontpage. I have to tried to be constructive, but if my comments are seen as vicious and bitchy, please take a step back and count to ten... thousand. I want to improve the site, and I'm not very happy with the entrance as it is.

okay, just a short comment for now because i am writing this using my mobile, an keys in this sucks.
I admit theres room for improvements. And since cwf aims to be community driven site, there is always room for discussion. What comes to bug tracer, this could be in it. Theres world news and frontpage width and heawynes related issues open, and at least world news one is at feedback state. Discussion can be followed and participated using notes. But i understand that it may be more convenient to use forums for issues requiring lots of talk and planning. And finally, all stages the frontpage has gone through have been done by me. And i may not be the best person to evaluate the site, because each and every feature there is, has required hours of work and lots of coffee and tobacco...
Rationale behind having world news on such a visible place is that i wished cwf to be about freeware games and their development, not just about downloading games. More later. My fingers ache...

[Scythe]

When you have time and health, there's no rush.

I can understand your rationale behind World News, but IMHO the frontpage is just not the place to load all this info. I am in no way opposed to World News (however, neither will I probably ever contribute to it), in fact I think it requires its own page, where it can shine in a lot more glory than being framed inside an index page. If this site should seriously treat these news items, it is indeed a section that will require constant work and input and should be allowed to have its own dedicated page, like the forum has.

I love you for all your hard work. Well, not as in, I want your body , but it is by no means unappreciated 8neither your work nor your body ). I don't want to cast most features away, but I do want to put them in places where they belong, and not have them cluttering an overcrowded index page.

Now, if I wasn't regressing into fever (heavens forbid - I was feeling fine this morning), I would add the issues I might consider "bugs" and "minor improvements" to the bug tracker. But not tonight. I'm sick of being sick. And I'm sure you are too, already.

[eMTe]

I feel current layout is a result of our indecisiveness. We must ask ourselves who is this site aimed for. Us or the world. Things that we like can be considered crappy by visitors, and opposite.

[Pater Alf]

Just my two cents on all that issues...

1) Too wide? Well, yes it is. The front page doesn't fit in my 1152x864 resolution, and that's a pretty generous resolution as it is, if you ask me. It simply can't be right that I need to scroll a bar to see that a banner says "Download", not "Downlc". Needs some kind of auto-fit screen.

That's right! It is too wide (strange enough it's not that wide when you`re logged out). But Maz knows about it and I hope he will change it quite soon.

Hmm... I just saw that the width was cut down and it nearly fits 1024x768 now. Thank you for that!!!

2) Header links. "Discussion" is fine. "CWF-FREEWARE" should lead to the index page (not currently a link). "Download" should lead to an actual download page, not the index.

I agree. "Download" link should lead to game index and "CWF" link to main page instead.

3) Game Spotlight. The Spotlight is good, though I question the quick rating button's usefulness.

Great feature! It should stay untouched (including the quick rate button)

4) GameVsGame. This is a great feature. I think it could be safely reduced in width though. I imagine "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" is to blame. I'll bet something can be done to solve that.

One of my favourite features on the main site

5) Quick Search. Good.

I never use it, but I think it's quite good when you just surf by and look for certain games or categories

6) Latest active topics. Useless waste of space. Use New Posts from the menu instead. Admittedly, sometimes I get logged off when I try to access, and New Posts make like I did get access and is reset. That's when this is useful. Is it possible to expand the search function to search for posts made in a certain time frame? That would be so much easier.

I like it very much, because sometimes I just visit the site to take a quick look if there is something new (especially at work). With this feature I don't have to log in to see if there are new posts and who wrote them. But I liked it better in the place it was before.

7) Pages visited. Useless info for a front page. Put in some kind of stat page.

I agree. Useless for nearly everybody (except for the admins and coders maybe)

8 ) World News. What I see as the greatest current sinner. This section manages to both be cramped and take up way too much space. The presentation, with its embedded movies, is dreadful to look at, and with its size and position seems to be the main focus of the site. Give this its own dedicated page and cut the previews down to 1-3, if there should even be previews at the index.

I like the news section a lot (and especially the tool for writing and eediting the world news) and I think it absolutely belongs to the main page. But as we don't have enough manpower to write down new world news every day, I liked it better in the place it was before. Now it's to much in the focus of the site (might be ok for the future)

9) Latest Games. Useful, but could certainly be cut down to three.

I disagree. I think it should be five or even more. There are times when I add a game every day (or even more) and also add new files. If there would be just the latest three files, some of them would never be seen on the main page (and I think they should be visible) for at least some days.

10) Site News. Important section that has now been lost two scrolls of a page down away. Regardless, 1-2 news items at a time is enough, the rest can safely be archived. Either that, or make more site news, but keep them brief (except when they have to be long).

Should stay untouched in my eyes...

11) Interviews. Put on its own dedicated page and make mention of new interviews in Site News, then close this section from the front page.

Sounds like a good idea to me...

12) Most popular downloads. Move to download page, free more space.

Not sure about this one...

13) Latest Reviews. Not worth having for the few reviews we get done. Plenty with a review link in the menu.

It's true we don't have that many reviews by now. But there might be more sometime in the future and I think it's a good idea to present the new ones on the main page.

14) Users with most posts. Utterly useless (and pretty static) piece of statistic. Put on statistics page.

Maybe useless, but I like it. Might be useful for new members who want to ask things and look for experienced members to do so?

15) Navigate on CWF. Put all items in the menu bar and release this space.

No oppinion on this one...

16) Banner exchange. Currently, to see a banner, I need to scroll down three times and right one time. Luckily, I haven't exchanged banners with CWF, or I'd be feeling slightly ripped off. And what is up with the "Other stuff" banners? Are these random sites that we exchange banners with?! If so, I think we should contact Burger King, Lufthansa and Keith Mweru, Nigerian Attorney at Law to see if they want to exchange banners and member emails with us...

I think we present the banners much more visible than most other sites. Just follow some of the links and see if you can find our banner. Don't think anyone can complain about our presentation.

Regarding the "Other Stuff" topic: I think we should have a closer look at the banners and see which one are developers (there are some) and which one are freeware collections. Then we should sort them and present them in this two categories.

[Chroelle]

My comments in BOLD in the quote.

Just my two cents on all that issues...

1) Too wide? Well, yes it is. The front page doesn't fit in my 1152x864 resolution, and that's a pretty generous resolution as it is, if you ask me. It simply can't be right that I need to scroll a bar to see that a banner says "Download", not "Downlc". Needs some kind of auto-fit screen.

That's right! It is too wide (strange enough it's not that wide when you`re logged out). But Maz knows about it and I hope he will change it quite soon.

Hmm... I just saw that the width was cut down and it nearly fits 1024x768 now. Thank you for that!!!

Yes - Thank you. We just need that last centimeter or two.

2) Header links. "Discussion" is fine. "CWF-FREEWARE" should lead to the index page (not currently a link). "Download" should lead to an actual download page, not the index.

I agree. "Download" link should lead to game index and "CWF" link to main page instead.

I agree fully with PA here. Good suggestion.

3) Game Spotlight. The Spotlight is good, though I question the quick rating button's usefulness.

Great feature! It should stay untouched (including the quick rate button)

I however feel like Scythe here. I never use the quickrate, but I do read up on games in the spotlight.

4) GameVsGame. This is a great feature. I think it could be safely reduced in width though. I imagine "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" is to blame. I'll bet something can be done to solve that.

One of my favourite features on the main site

Not ONE of mine. Definently my first and foremost favourite feature.

5) Quick Search. Good.

I never use it, but I think it's quite good when you just surf by and look for certain games or categories

I use it when I have to find a specific game, but not otherwise, but I think this should get more possibilities, but that is another debate.

6) Latest active topics. Useless waste of space. Use New Posts from the menu instead. Admittedly, sometimes I get logged off when I try to access, and New Posts make like I did get access and is reset. That's when this is useful. Is it possible to expand the search function to search for posts made in a certain time frame? That would be so much easier.

I like it very much, because sometimes I just visit the site to take a quick look if there is something new (especially at work). With this feature I don't have to log in to see if there are new posts and who wrote them. But I liked it better in the place it was before.

I use it the same way that both PA and Scythe do, but it could get a bottom position where we can scroll down to find it. It doesn't need to be the center of attention or anything

7) Pages visited. Useless info for a front page. Put in some kind of stat page.

I agree. Useless for nearly everybody (except for the admins and coders maybe)

Count this admin out! I never ever use it. I look at it from time to time and ask myself if the stats are even accurate...

8 ) World News. What I see as the greatest current sinner. This section manages to both be cramped and take up way too much space. The presentation, with its embedded movies, is dreadful to look at, and with its size and position seems to be the main focus of the site. Give this its own dedicated page and cut the previews down to 1-3, if there should even be previews at the index.

I like the news section a lot (and especially the tool for writing and eediting the world news) and I think it absolutely belongs to the main page. But as we don't have enough manpower to write down new world news every day, I liked it better in the place it was before. Now it's to much in the focus of the site (might be ok for the future)

Have we discussed wether the site news and world news could be mixed up? I think it would give a simpler site, and I dont mind if site news and world news gets the same position. I think it actually seems better when I think about it.

9) Latest Games. Useful, but could certainly be cut down to three.

I disagree. I think it should be five or even more. There are times when I add a game every day (or even more) and also add new files. If there would be just the latest three files, some of them would never be seen on the main page (and I think they should be visible) for at least some days.

[/b]I think it is ok with the latest games being very visible, and I agree that 3-5 is at least necessary. But I also came up with a suggestion some days ago about turning that line of info vertial and just showing the screenies and names of the games instead of submitter and platform being shown also. This would clean up that interface too. But please discuss on this.

10) Site News. Important section that has now been lost two scrolls of a page down away. Regardless, 1-2 news items at a time is enough, the rest can safely be archived. Either that, or make more site news, but keep them brief (except when they have to be long).

Should stay untouched in my eyes...

I commented on this higher up with world news. Mix the two sections I say.

11) Interviews. Put on its own dedicated page and make mention of new interviews in Site News, then close this section from the front page.

Sounds like a good idea to me...

And me...

12) Most popular downloads. Move to download page, free more space.

Not sure about this one...

I would await decission on this one until we see how much space we clean up doing other stuff. This could be good to have visible but not for any cost...

13) Latest Reviews. Not worth having for the few reviews we get done. Plenty with a review link in the menu.

It's true we don't have that many reviews by now. But there might be more sometime in the future and I think it's a good idea to present the new ones on the main page.

Not sure this should be as visible as it is now. Maybe just a little less visible, and with a little less info. Not sure though

14) Users with most posts. Utterly useless (and pretty static) piece of statistic. Put on statistics page.

Maybe useless, but I like it. Might be useful for new members who want to ask things and look for experienced members to do so?

Definently useless. As in "all resistance is futile".

15) Navigate on CWF. Put all items in the menu bar and release this space.

No oppinion on this one...

Disagree. This section has a lot of tools and this would clutter the menu even more. I think this would be a nice place to place all sorts of links for stuff we might need later on as crew. Might not be useful beyond the crew.

16) Banner exchange. Currently, to see a banner, I need to scroll down three times and right one time. Luckily, I haven't exchanged banners with CWF, or I'd be feeling slightly ripped off. And what is up with the "Other stuff" banners? Are these random sites that we exchange banners with?! If so, I think we should contact Burger King, Lufthansa and Keith Mweru, Nigerian Attorney at Law to see if they want to exchange banners and member emails with us...

I think we present the banners much more visible than most other sites. Just follow some of the links and see if you can find our banner. Don't think anyone can complain about our presentation.

Regarding the "Other Stuff" topic: I think we should have a closer look at the banners and see which one are developers (there are some) and which one are freeware collections. Then we should sort them and present them in this two categories.

I also think we can remove the link for DL's site in the other stuff. I don't think it is used anymore? Or is it?
And I believe the new position of banners is better. And I also agree with PA, that banners are at least at our frontpage, which is a lot better that we do on other sites. Check out Acidplay and then find our banner... I haven't found it yet. It took me a while even to find their links section...

[Maz]

Just my two cents on all that issues...

1) Too wide? Well, yes it is. The front page doesn't fit in my 1152x864 resolution, and that's a pretty generous resolution as it is, if you ask me. It simply can't be right that I need to scroll a bar to see that a banner says "Download", not "Downlc". Needs some kind of auto-fit screen.

That's right! It is too wide (strange enough it's not that wide when you`re logged out). But Maz knows about it and I hope he will change it quite soon.

Hmm... I just saw that the width was cut down and it nearly fits 1024x768 now. Thank you for that!!!

Yes - Thank you. We just need that last centimeter or two.

I'll work with it. ATM it is most propably caused by link row at top of the page.

2) Header links. "Discussion" is fine. "CWF-FREEWARE" should lead to the index page (not currently a link). "Download" should lead to an actual download page, not the index.

I agree. "Download" link should lead to game index and "CWF" link to main page instead.

I agree fully with PA here. Good suggestion.

Doable. Add in tracker please.

3) Game Spotlight. The Spotlight is good, though I question the quick rating button's usefulness.

Great feature! It should stay untouched (including the quick rate button)

I however feel like Scythe here. I never use the quickrate, but I do read up on games in the spotlight.

quick rate does not really disturb me. I do not really use it, but it is mostly for not so frequent visitors who might just drop a vote if there happens to be their favourite game at spotlights. It also tells visitors that they can vote for games we host. Hence I would keep it.

4) GameVsGame. This is a great feature. I think it could be safely reduced in width though. I imagine "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" is to blame. I'll bet something can be done to solve that.

One of my favourite features on the main site

Not ONE of mine. Definently my first and foremost favourite feature.

So this should stay. And I assume it is better to have it horizontal as it is now? (So games will be on same 'level' at the battle It scales in width according to page width, so I do not believe size is an issue?

5) Quick Search. Good.

I never use it, but I think it's quite good when you just surf by and look for certain games or categories

I use it when I have to find a specific game, but not otherwise, but I think this should get more possibilities, but that is another debate.

Nothing to add. It needs to stay for visitors.

6) Latest active topics. Useless waste of space. Use New Posts from the menu instead. Admittedly, sometimes I get logged off when I try to access, and New Posts make like I did get access and is reset. That's when this is useful. Is it possible to expand the search function to search for posts made in a certain time frame? That would be so much easier.

I like it very much, because sometimes I just visit the site to take a quick look if there is something new (especially at work). With this feature I don't have to log in to see if there are new posts and who wrote them. But I liked it better in the place it was before.

I use it the same way that both PA and Scythe do, but it could get a bottom position where we can scroll down to find it. It doesn't need to be the center of attention or anything

I do use it too. And it may have some value for visitors too. They may spot interesting topic to participate. However it should not have main focus, hence I switched it's and world news places.

7) Pages visited. Useless info for a front page. Put in some kind of stat page.

I agree. Useless for nearly everybody (except for the admins and coders maybe)

Count this admin out! I never ever use it. I look at it from time to time and ask myself if the stats are even accurate...

It can be removed. I already removed most of it from everybody else but admins. Accuracy?? Well, as accurate as any IP and username based solution can be. Only counts hits on game pages though.

8 ) World News. What I see as the greatest current sinner. This section manages to both be cramped and take up way too much space. The presentation, with its embedded movies, is dreadful to look at, and with its size and position seems to be the main focus of the site. Give this its own dedicated page and cut the previews down to 1-3, if there should even be previews at the index.

I like the news section a lot (and especially the tool for writing and eediting the world news) and I think it absolutely belongs to the main page. But as we don't have enough manpower to write down new world news every day, I liked it better in the place it was before. Now it's to much in the focus of the site (might be ok for the future)

Have we discussed wether the site news and world news could be mixed up? I think it would give a simpler site, and I dont mind if site news and world news gets the same position. I think it actually seems better when I think about it.

I would definitely not mix site and world news. World news have only 1-2 row descriptions on mainsite. But as I told earlier, I definitely see a need for it to be on mainsite.

9) Latest Games. Useful, but could certainly be cut down to three.

I disagree. I think it should be five or even more. There are times when I add a game every day (or even more) and also add new files. If there would be just the latest three files, some of them would never be seen on the main page (and I think they should be visible) for at least some days.

I think it is ok with the latest games being very visible, and I agree that 3-5 is at least necessary. But I also came up with a suggestion some days ago about turning that line of info vertial and just showing the screenies and names of the games instead of submitter and platform being shown also. This would clean up that interface too. But please discuss on this.

This is direct indication about our activity. And as PA told, we need quite many games presented. And I answered to Chroelle in tracker

10) Site News. Important section that has now been lost two scrolls of a page down away. Regardless, 1-2 news items at a time is enough, the rest can safely be archived. Either that, or make more site news, but keep them brief (except when they have to be long).

Should stay untouched in my eyes...

I commented on this higher up with world news. Mix the two sections I say.

No (More) Comments

11) Interviews. Put on its own dedicated page and make mention of new interviews in Site News, then close this section from the front page.

Sounds like a good idea to me...

And me...

I'm not convinced.... MORE ABOUT THAT LATER

12) Most popular downloads. Move to download page, free more space.

Not sure about this one...

I would await decission on this one until we see how much space we clean up doing other stuff. This could be good to have visible but not for any cost...

I would keep this. I often check the most popular things from sites where I download something. It tends to somehow reflect the quality of things.

13) Latest Reviews. Not worth having for the few reviews we get done. Plenty with a review link in the menu.

It's true we don't have that many reviews by now. But there might be more sometime in the future and I think it's a good idea to present the new ones on the main page.

Not sure this should be as visible as it is now. Maybe just a little less visible, and with a little less info. Not sure though

No opinion formed. yet.

14) Users with most posts. Utterly useless (and pretty static) piece of statistic. Put on statistics page.

Maybe useless, but I like it. Might be useful for new members who want to ask things and look for experienced members to do so?

Definently useless. As in "all resistance is futile".

Can be removed if decided so.

15) Navigate on CWF. Put all items in the menu bar and release this space.

No oppinion on this one...

Disagree. This section has a lot of tools and this would clutter the menu even more. I think this would be a nice place to place all sorts of links for stuff we might need later on as crew. Might not be useful beyond the crew.

I believe we should not place all links in header. Or we can try that, but I'm afraid it would be confusing with links in more than 3 row..

16) Banner exchange. Currently, to see a banner, I need to scroll down three times and right one time. Luckily, I haven't exchanged banners with CWF, or I'd be feeling slightly ripped off. And what is up with the "Other stuff" banners? Are these random sites that we exchange banners with?! If so, I think we should contact Burger King, Lufthansa and Keith Mweru, Nigerian Attorney at Law to see if they want to exchange banners and member emails with us...

I think we present the banners much more visible than most other sites. Just follow some of the links and see if you can find our banner. Don't think anyone can complain about our presentation.

Regarding the "Other Stuff" topic: I think we should have a closer look at the banners and see which one are developers (there are some) and which one are freeware collections. Then we should sort them and present them in this two categories.

I also think we can remove the link for DL's site in the other stuff. I don't think it is used anymore? Or is it?
And I believe the new position of banners is better. And I also agree with PA, that banners are at least at our frontpage, which is a lot better that we do on other sites. Check out Acidplay and then find our banner... I haven't found it yet. It took me a while even to find their links section...

[/quote]

Banners are moved. Not all sites in our banner section link to us. And this section is subject to change. more about the rationale later.

[Scythe]

The small changes made did wonders for me. Especially World News, which no longer looks like the Bride of Frankenstein, since the embedded movies no longer foul it up.

Also, I think that banner placement is much better now.

Or maybe it's just 'cos I'm still sick. Wow, last night I threw up in buckets. I thought I was ready for "real" food. guess not...

[Pater Alf]

I looked at the links again and I think there should be three categories:

a) Freeware game sites: Acidplay, RunTimE, Caiman, Planet Freeplay, Freegames, Dosgames, Ytanium, Free-Games

b) Developers: Foppy Games, Firestorm Productions

c) Other Stuff: The Free Site, Freeware Arena, Arcade Force, David's Portal

[Maz]

About links:

1. Why having link/banner exchange?

a) To get our visitor number up.
a1) More we'll get unique visitors, higher the bids our ads will get => Chroelle needs to pay less, and perhaps we eventually get even or on positive side so we can start planning spending the money for...
a2) To make our site more appealing for possible 'link exchangers" etc. (There's a loop you know )
a3) To get more publicity, new members etc... (to grow)

b) To get higher rank in the eyes of google. (page rank)
b1) Higher our pagerank, better is our position in google's search results. => more visitors.
b2) PageRank is nowadays generally used as a 'quality meter' for web pages. Better the rank, more respected our site is amongst other sites => more appealing our site is for link/banner exchange.
PageRankPrinciples) Google ranks websites with 'pagerank'. Pagerank is calculated roughly based on links leading to a website. More links there's pointing at certain website, higher rank it gets. Also higher the pagerank of a site where link is, more it increases target website's pagerank.

Why there is links to sites not linking to us?

Well, some of those are websites I care about (Like DL's site was), or sites that simply are good freeware sites. Most of those however are websites, which stated that they are willing to exchange links, but other site needs to have link to their website before they do add a link. I am finally starting to believe that this was just a trick to get a few links... I'll wait for some time more, and then I'll perform a cleanup...

Finally, it is hard to get link/banner exchange with really good freeware sites. There's not too much of them, and most of the contact attempts I have done have not resulted an answer. And there's also bunch of email addresses which are out of use.

It is worth a try however, because it seems that a link on a good freeware website results easily more visitors than google brings to us. (caiman).

So my quest continues...

[Pater Alf]

If this post is a reaction to my last one:

I understand all of that. My post was just a try to sort the links we have so far. It's quite unfair that sites like Foppy Games (Developer) or David's Portal (mostly not about freeware games) are sorted as "Freeware game downloads" while developers like Firestorm Productions are categorisized as "Other Stuff"...

BTW: Thank you for all the changes you made during the last two days (regarding the main page)!!!

[Maz]

Dont worry PA. My previous msg was responce to this:

Banners are moved. Not all sites in our banner section link to us. And this section is subject to change. more about the rationale later.

[eMTe]

I feel that only boxes like "users with most posts" and "pages visited" should be removed. They are pretty useless for casual visitor and interesting only for longtime members.

Some sections take arguably too more space - interviews, game vs game, at spotlights (displayed short description should be cut to 2-3 lines max) and most popular downloads.

"Latest games" should be renamed to "latest games added" imho, cause now it's hard to tell what "latest" means - reviewed, talked about or simply uploaded?

Before we all start grumbling... We've come a long way, just look at the portal:

http://www.curlysworldoffreeware.com/portal.php