Sharia Law and Australia

[Chroelle]

I just got this in an email sent by an American familymember:

Quote:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament.
"If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country.
Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off".

"Basically, people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

AMERICA and Canada..... ARE YOU LISTENING?

Australia-The Right to Leave Our Country - YOU Have the right ..the right to leave !

After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights. After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen.
Published in an Australian newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push but a fact because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture.


We will accept your beliefs and will not question why, all we ask is that you accept ours and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means keep your culture but do not force it on others.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here.
You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.

Quote END:

What is your oppinion on this?
Do you think that this is a good signal to send or not.
Some of the thoughts in here made me think about the current Danish situation with the Mohammed Cartoons. Are we sending the wrong image to the muslim population???
How does things work in your country?

[Ancsur2002]

In MY country today we have a government that nobody elected. If I say in Hungary that I am Hungarian, or dare to put a Hungarian flag on my house, I am being called a chauvinist, racist, antisemitist and everything bad. Nowadays, Hungarians are being punished for their own nationality in their own country hurrah

[Prideth]

I tend to agree with most of that to be honest. It is really getting to me lately that we as Australians are pretty much being told our culture and lifestyle is wrong and inferior because it clashes with culture being imported into this nation by a minority of radical immigrants.

The last 20 years or so we have sold ourselves very much as a multi-cultural nation and encouraged immigrants to keep their language and culture, but it is backfiring on us badly now.

The recent riots in Sydney had their very beginnings in gangs of muslim youths accosting girls on the beach, spitting on them and calling them foul names because they were wearing bathing costumes and showing parts of their bodies. The beach culture is very big in Australia and the beating up of lifeguards (themselves held as almost godlike by most Aussies) who tried to protect these innocent girls lead to the explosion of anger against the muslim community. I'm not in any way condoning the violence, but do understand what prompted it. We are not a muslim country, the vast majority of our population aren't muslim and our girls are fully allowed to swim at the beach wearing anything that won't get them arrested. The fact these youths were trying to impose an, to us, alien culture by threats and violence was met with the same from those who are just getting sick of these sort of clashes.

I've also heard recently that some sections of the muslim community are trying to get our hard fought for rape in marriage law abolished because apparently the koran says it is impossible for a man to rape his wife. They also want the polygamy laws gone. So far, the government has met both requests with a firm no.

[Chroelle]

Actually I have a hard time with this discussion, since I can't figure out what to feel.
1) Most people have a tendency to talk about all Muslims being like this. I am very much against this.
2) I can't help but feel that the discussion is based on a generally accepted racism-background. I'm not saying that it is racist to want to keep one's own culture in a land, instead of changing to for example Sharia law.
3) The discussion about the mohammed cartoons have brought up a weird sentiment in people. We are allowed to piss of muslims, and totally disrespect their beliefs, but we all know that they will just bomb us if we do....
Howcome people can't differ between muslims and terrorists? Have these two populationgroups grown into one in our minds?
Why do we have to say muslims when talking about other cultures pushing their culture upon us... Actually I can't help but think:
What about the western culture?
Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkey....
What about American Culture spreading throughout the west too...

I don't think we can make a comparison directly as most of these culture intakes are chosen by countries themselves, but then what is their cultural background coming to?
If a country has a lot of immigrants then of course some cultural exchange will happen... As far as I am concerned... Thats not a bad thing. I love the fact that Copenhagen has lots of deli's, cultural restaurants, pizza-places, immigrants, and all sorts of other things that witness a cultural exchange.

I'm not for immigrants taking over courts, governments and such, but I think it is important that we mix. And that we listen to eachother and respect eachothers oppinions.

Sharia laws belong no where in my oppinion, but if people want's it that way, then let them have it.
I'm not a big fan of the Dutch governments decision to make cannabis legal, but they did, and that works for them... If they don't want it anymore, change it.
Iraq had a dictator...It didn't work for them....Change it. Want help...Ask for help!
Afghanistan had a large terrorist-group and a terrorist leader...Want to get rid of him...Do an effort - can't make it...Ask for help...

I think we need to step down our high horse in the west and just simply take things as they come. AND stop generalising. A muslim is a muslim. Not a terrorist waiting to happen. I'm not a nazi waiting to happen, and I don't think either of you are... But wouldn't it be great if people didn't imply it everytime they mentioned your religion?

over

[Prideth]

Chroelle, I never generalised and said all Muslims in Australia were agitating and starting riots. In fact I made a point of saying it is only small and radical groups doing this, and it is. Most of those small groups are young males with other problems who are using Islam as an excuse to lash out at anyone and anything they decide is against them and/or their religion.

The vast majority of our Muslim population manage to blend their culture and ours in a positive way, just like all our other immigrant groups have. These sort of clashes aren't just the Muslims either, but they are all I talked about because that is what the email you posted focused on.

For example, soccer Australia, about 10 to 15 years ago banned all use of "regional" names for Aussie soccer teams like Macedonia, Hellas ect because a small minority of fans were latching onto the names and starting ethnic fights at matches. We have no problems with immigrants bringing the best of their culture here, and sharing it with us, but they can leave the worst at home. Some sections of the Asian community weren't happy about 20 years ago when the then government tightened the import laws and many ingredients for chinese medicines were suddenly on the banned imports list. There are Asian criminal gangs operating now who make a killing smuggling this stuff in, not to mention drugs like heroin ect. The Muslims aren't the only immigrant group with culture problems, they're just the latest.

Australia is not a Christian country. It was never founded as a Christian country. We also aren't a Muslim nation, or want to become one. Our nation is secular and the vast majority of us are happy to keep it that way. We don't want sharia law forced on us anymore than we want Christian fundamentalist laws forced on us. If a small number of our immigrants want to live under sharia law, then they are quite free to move to a nation that has it.

[Chroelle]

Chroelle, I never generalised and said all Muslims in Australia were agitating and starting riots.

Please don't feel attacked by me. It was a general about the discussions on this field. I had just visited a debates forum in Danish (sadly - so you can't read it and see why I felt that way)...

The discussion in lots of Danish debates makes Islam be responsible for not doing something to remove such agitators, and funny enough in a country that has been talking about freedom of speech and expression in such a vivid manner during the whole debate. Let's force the muslims to speak up against people we don't like, while we accuse them of being terrorists...
And in the meanwhile the Danish Nazis are walking the streets in a bigger Danish city and burning Corans... But we might just arrest them and then turn towards the muslims again. NOW see what they made us do...
I don't know if you can see where I got my from...?

If we talk of something that doesn't work, then we should propably check our own part of the system first, before we talk of others...

I hate to live in a country that doesn't seem to notice that it is being doublestandard and impossing others with our religion, while accusing others of doing the same.
[/:rant:] and apology for seeming to attack

[Ancsur2002]

If people make fun of the Muslims' deepest feelings and the Muslims get angry, the muslims are the bad guys. I don't agree with this, since I think if I hurt someone, I am the one who is responsible and not the one who feels offended.

It is also true the other way round. If in my country a gipsy steals from a shop, he is a nice guy and only wants to live, and if the police wants to arrest him, the policemen are arrested for being racist.
If I would steal something from a shop, I'm arrested for stealing.

If we talk about freedom of speech and equality, then don't let criminals abuse the term 'racism' just because they are a part of a minority and get away.
If we talk about freedom of speech and equality, this means that I am free to say what I think, but I'm not free to offend others, because then it's not freedom of speech but cursing or whatever.
If we talk about freedom of speech and equality, then let's not differentiate between people. If someone does something bad, then he is a bad guy, and if someone offends another person, then he is rude.

Why is it so that the US or another 'big country' tells the world that ok, now everyone who lives in THAT country (former Soviet Union before, the Muslim countries now) is a terrorist, or a bad guy, SO every other country has the right to offend them, despise them, KILL them, because now they are the "enemies".
If we killed enough, we will choose another "enemy" and let's pray it's not my country or yours...

I think that everyone has his own country with own people and own laws, if someone wants to live here, accept the rules that apply. I don't go there in his country and want to force my beliefs and thoughts on other people, so those coming here, please, don't force your thoughts on me...