Genres - we need YOU to answer here...

Post by **Chroelle** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 20:58

I am sure I made a thread somewhere about this, but can't find it in a search...

We need genres for the main site. Game genres and explanations that you would search for...

We currently have:

Platform
Logic/puzzle
1st person shooter
3d action
Adult
Beat em up
Sports
Simulation
managing
boardgame
flying
sidescroller
arcade
turnbased strategy
realtime strategy
point and click
adventure
misc
RPG
driving
remake
tools

Which do we need, and what would you search for, and what do you think others will search for.... Please only come up with serious suggestions that could be used for at least a couple of games...
And something that isn't going to need to be altered after a week or so...

But please give us something to work with...

Pater Alf · Post by **Pater Alf** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 22:01

I think from the list above we don´t really need "Managing" (I would search for "Simulation" when I want this genre) and "Point´n Click" (I always search for adventure). Also I would change the genre "Driving" into "Racing" and "3D action" into "Action".

I´m not sure if it isn´t confusing for users if we have to many genres?

Parvini · Post by **Parvini** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 23:44

I made a list of genres to go with my Top 100 games on my website:

http://www.parviniworld.cjb.cc/Some%20u ... terms.html

Seems to me, 4x and Sneaker are both missing from the list above.

I'd argue 4x especially has enough games in it to make it a genre unto itself distinct from a TBS or RTS,

"Sneaker" there is less of an argument for, but I've never been comfortable calling Thief an FPS.

moshboy · Post by **moshboy** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:03

I personally have no problem with having lots of genres but I think maybe there should be subgenres within genres themselves.. for example realtime an turn based strategy could be sub-genres when the user clicks on Strategy just the same as 2d and 3d action could be sub-genres when the user clicks on the action genre, etc, etc. This is a feature that I wanted to include in my own site and a feature that Gamehippo has. It might not be the easiest feature to implement though.

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:05

Idea is good Mosh. But implementation is not simple. Especially since whole genre system on CWF is coded in awfull way. (that's because I did not plan possibility to add multible genres in first place..)

Or actually, it might not be that hard after all..

mm... I will see if I find the time... But when I next update genre thing, there must be final plans concerning genres done... That's because for abowe mentioned reasons, changing genre system is not THAT straightforward... :/

Post by **Chroelle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:43

And I think we will use this thread to do that!
I think simulation and managing should both be there, since I find it hard to see Test Drive and SimCity in the same category but they are since they are both simulations... Simcity however is managing...
Also Racing/Driving is a bit complicated since we might actually want to go with flying and running too. If you know what I mean....?
This way a gamer should maybe be able to search racing and then see a subgenre called driving and since he wants a racing game no matter what he has to race he can just press racing, and when he then feels like racing planes, he can then press flying. ´
More general genres actually should make it easier for the player to find a specific game, as we put the genreS that belong to a game on its description, so it belongs to several categories...
Please let me know if I am not clear...

SFault · Post by **SFault** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:38

Pater Alf wrote:I´m not sure if it isn´t confusing for users if we have to many genres?

I agree. If there are 20 genres and the game I'm looking for is in one of those, but could be in 3-4 others too, it will be hard to find it. Here are my suggestions.

1) Add a search-mode. Most likely with support to typos and such, so you don't have know the excat name.

2) Allow game to go under several genres. If this is possible, then there can be almost as many genres there exists, since the game can be found under eg. 'War' or 'Strategy'. This might also give solution to the subgenre problem.

On the other hand I doubt a little, that this site is going to be used to find some excat game from the past. More likely it's used to find some nice new games. New meaning here games, that the site visitor has never heard.

(BTW. Is it possible to link that 'CWF Freeware' on the upper right hand corner to DL section. Since the left one says 'Forums' and clicking it I get to forums. For some reason I always click on the 'Freeware' when I wan't to games.)

Post by **Chroelle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:16

Well this is exactly what I mean. Genres are for the search-function (we already have...)
If you want to find a game that could be 4 different categories, it should be available in all 4 of course, and that actually makes it easier to find.
If it is only represented in one category, you would have to figure out which one it was more likely to be in... War OR Strategy. Here you can find it in both.

But we still need more genres, and even subgenres.... Please explain them as you post them though, so we know what you mean by it. For example I am not sure if everyone knows what 4x is... It is far more likely that people know what FPS is or RTS. It would be nice with explanations.

moshboy · Post by **moshboy** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:00

You'll notice on my site that I have a genre called Other Clones - bear in mind that a clone and a remake are two different things. A remake is a straight remake of a past game and a clone is a game that clones the gameplay of a previous game but either has s different graphical appearance or different levels to the original.

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 14:28

SFault wrote:
Pater Alf wrote:I´m not sure if it isn´t confusing for users if we have to many genres?
I agree. If there are 20 genres and the game I'm looking for is in one of those, but could be in 3-4 others too, it will be hard to find it. Here are my suggestions.

1) Add a search-mode. Most likely with support to typos and such, so you don't have know the excat name.

2) Allow game to go under several genres. If this is possible, then there can be almost as many genres there exists, since the game can be found under eg. 'War' or 'Strategy'. This might also give solution to the subgenre problem.

On the other hand I doubt a little, that this site is going to be used to find some excat game from the past. More likely it's used to find some nice new games. New meaning here games, that the site visitor has never heard.

(BTW. Is it possible to link that 'CWF Freeware' on the upper right hand corner to DL section. Since the left one says 'Forums' and clicking it I get to forums. For some reason I always click on the 'Freeware' when I wan't to games.)

We do have possibility to add several genres / game. And search function supports * as a wildcard, and I at least meant to make it case insensitive...

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 14:30

mm.. Now that I think of this.. Do we really need sub genres feature when we can add many genres / game ?

Post by **Chroelle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 18:41

Not really no...

It seems that it would actually be reduntant, since you can go and look for the specific genre you want, and I will be careful to place all fitting genres on a game. If you do notice a genre missing on a game then please feel free to mention it.

It is not always easy to find all genres that fit the game, but mostly I played the game myself, so I will have some idea what to place it under...

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:32

Personally, I believe there are too many genres, unless you plan to give a game multiple tags and cross link them all.

The definition needs to be as broad as possible.

From your initial list I would merge most:

Platform -> same as sidescroller and includes acarde
Logic/puzzle -> includes board games
1st person shooter -> includes 3D action / 3rd person
Adult
Beat em up -> sports
Simulation -> includes management type games
flying
turnbased strategy -> includes realtime and 4X
point and click -> same as adventure
misc -> no need for this... there's enough genres to classify the stray ones
RPG
driving
remake
tools

Note that I classify a game on it's gameplay style - an RTS is a RTS regardless whether it's realtime, turnbased, dice rolling, etc.

Post by **Chroelle** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:41

But RTS is defined by all objects and players moving at anytime, while a TBS is based on moving in turns, and is hence much less hectic...

eMTe · Post by **eMTe** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 13:25

My personal opinion:

I think word "genre" doesnt apply to above lists. Is "remake" a genre? Each game from each genre can be described as remake as well. So if we want to make original search system it might be good to allow users searching by certain key words instead of tightly specified genres. I said it somewhere on these boards - Underdogs system is closest to the ideal - it allows users to search by genres AND by numerous - they call it so - themes that describe rather style of game than genre. Some people look only for specific themes - like "fun" or cyberpunk games and genre doesnt say much about the theme... And now mixing it with MobyGames system which allows searching by almost any feature you can imagine (platform, release date, subgenre and so on) we would have best search system in the world (of freeware sites).

Dang, why I'm not a coder.

Post by **Chroelle** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 13:59

I think these ideas are all good, but I think we could implement some of them later on, and members could help, by submitting game info for us.
I think that we dont need to do it all right now, but genres would be a good place to start. I agree that HOTU has some really good searchterms with the themes!

I think we need to have some simple things done in order of search:
Genres (To simply go for the type of game you play)
Developer/publisher (If you found a developer you like - I know I did)
top rated (Most people want to play good games instead of bad games...)
Remakes (A lot of oldgamers will come here, and remakes is up their alley)
Special permission (Because we are selling ourselves on this amongst others)

When these things are done, and we are ready to go for more, then themes and other searchterms could be implemented, by getting members to submit info on games.... (That is the info we dont have already).

The more members can do for a site, the more they connect to it if you ask me, and the more connection the better. And since we got a squad of gamehunters they can always challenge the info members submit if we are unsure... Like if somebody told us that Nick Bounty was a FPS, I think lots of GH's would react...

Also if they told us that it was released by Sierra, and that the link to developer was www.google.com. All things that are easily cleared out.

BTW Maz, could you teach eMTe PHP???

eMTe · Post by **eMTe** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 22:16

Chroelle wrote:Maz, could you teach eMTe PHP???

No.

Back to subject:
Platformer is not the same as sidescroller, since there's plenty of shooter sidescrollers, beat'em up sidescrollers and so on, remake is not a genre and so on...

To sum up. The less "genres" the worse system we will have and we'll end up like thousands crappy sites which put games too elusive to classify into narrowly defined pigeonholes. But I perfectly understand that we have to start with something, so I would go for one of the above lists (rather yours than Eric's), slightly modified. Will add mine soon, if my constant grumbling didnt turn you off to me completely.

Maz · Post by **Maz** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 22:16

It's not really about teaching.. It's all about studying and learning.

If eMTe wishes to start studying, I will gladly try to explain him things he has problems with. But there's really no shortcuts to programming, It takes lot of work, sweat and coffee to learn... If he wishes to start learning, I can write some info about how to get started, and in future try to answer questions. But there's no way I could pour the knowledge into anyones head, learning is mostly up to ones own activity. Just a word from eMTe, and I'll explain some basics & tell where he can start seeking from information.

If eMTe has ever programmed with any language, it helps. If he has programmed in C, then it helps even more (because syntax of php is fairly similar to C's syntax). If he has done C++, then it's even easier.. Starting from 'clean table' is hard but of course doable. Problem with php is that it requires server to practice it. CWF can of course be used, (the testarea for example), but it is far from convenient with it's shitty web based interface.. (Own web server with php or at least ssh access to server with php are things which would make it 100 times easier. It is of course possible to install Linux on home computer and practice with it (allmost all nuxes have web server in them) or to install for example Apache on windows. But Installing apache on windows at home may not be so straightforward.)

eMTe · Post by **eMTe** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 22:24

My short "no" from previous post means that I have no time for learning programming languages atm and no real need.

"Dang, why I'm not the coder" doesnt mean I want to learn php or anything badly, it means "Dang, why havent I learned hundreds more things when I was younger even if my mother told me to do so".

Matter closed for now, and if it will be reopened I have a few friends who can teach me things, so bothering Maz would be not too fair anyway.

BlueDEvil · Post by **BlueDEvil** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 22:38

Having many genres is good, but it is likely many overlaps. most games is likely to be in many genres. it would be easier if you have a few many categories like strategy, action, arcade, adventure, rpg n simulation. for example, under arcade, you can hav minor genres like shooter, beat them up, platform...etc. I would classify rts n tbs under strategy. i do know some games uses wat i call turn real, where at tat turn, any player can move at any time until end of turn is reach like time run out. having major genres n minor genres can help sort things better. it would allow multi lvl searches like select strategy, then tbs n maybe even more minor categories like 4x, space, etc for game like master of orion.